Tips On How To Do This Teen/Tween Parenting Gig from the Pro’s with Guest Cindy Muchnick

Nellie Harden: 00:00:04

Hello and welcome to the 6570 family project podcast. If you are a parent of a tween teen or somewhere on the way, this is exactly the place for you. This is the playground for parents who want to raise their kids with intention, strength and joy. Come and hear all the discussions, get all the tactics and have lots of laughs along the way. We will dive into the real challenges and raising kids today how to show up as parents and teach your kids how to show up as members of the family and individuals of the world. My name is Nellie Harden, big city girl turn small town sipping iced tea on the front porch mama, who loves igniting transformation in the hearts and minds of families by helping them build self love, discipline and leadership that elevate the family experience, and sets the kids up with a rock solid foundation, they can launch their life on all before they ever leave home. This is the 6570 family project. Let's go Hello, and welcome to another episode of the 6570 family project podcast where we are putting aside the power struggles and finding the path to lead our young women forward with confidence, respect and wisdom, the things that they need to prepare them to be in the world out there. You guys today I have a wonderful guest on today. I have Cindy Muchnick. And we she is one of the co authors of the parent compass. I'm very excited to have her on here today. And they help parents of teens and tweens parent better in this competitive and very uncertain landscape while also keeping in tune with the mental health and the parent teen relationship, just like we talked about here and keeping that at the forefront. They have been on so many different podcasts and speaking and writing and have many books between them. I cannot wait to get started in this conversation because they both come from backgrounds where they were helping teens and tweens through the educational experience, be prepared for moving on to whatever that is going to come after the high school experience. And this book came out as a reflex to the big college scandal that happened back in 2019. And also happened to come out during a time that we were all in the pandemic. And so this is a multi layered multifaceted conversation. You guys, it is so good to buckle in, grab a notebook and a cup of coffee or a cup of tea and listen in. Let's go ahead and get started. Okay, you guys, I can not wait to have you listen in on this conversation that we are going to have. I am not joking. We got on actually like a half hour ago. And we have just been chatting and we're like, oh yeah, we actually have to record something here. So first of all, I just want to welcome Cindy to the 6570 podcast.

Cindy Muchnick: 00:03:14

Thank you so much. It's so nice to be here and finally meet you.

Nellie Harden: 00:03:18

I know we've been following each other and just interacting through Instagram and things for a while I've been following the parent compass. For a while now, so much of your work is integral to pieces of what I do. And I love the messaging that you guys have. And it's always smiles. And it's always fun. It's the uplifting music. And I'm just so thankful. First off, I'll just start it off with this. I'm so thankful for you and in Jim coming together and having this collaboration and writing this book and the message that you're putting out there in the world, especially now today.

Cindy Muchnick: 00:03:52

Thank you so much. Yeah, I mean, you know, the parent compass. My co authors Jen Curtis, I'm Cindy Muchnick. And our backgrounds are we're both had been in the independent college counseling space for 30 plus years combined, and working with teens and tweens going through navigating High School and culminating in the college or post high school experience, whatever that might be. But in our case, most of the kids that we were working with, were on the college journey. And we just started seeing, you know, not only in the world and the college admissions scandal that erupted back in early 2019, with parents behaving very badly in the journey, but also we started just seeing so many of our kids getting so stressed out and being so, you know, overwhelmed, over exhausted, depressed, and really becoming so robotic and this whole high school journey and these parents that were pushing and managing and and trying to uplift but you know, thought they were being helpful but really creating more damage and speaking for their kids and advocating for their kids and kind of taking over their lives that we just decided we needed to write a book to help parents behave better. And so originally, the parent compass was an etiquette book, really to teach parents how to behave. And then it became a book of let's help parents navigate the, you know, tween and teen years, keeping their kids mental health in the forefront there, you know, wanting to preserve that and wanting to preserve the relationship between the parents and their kids, because we only get them in our homes for a limited amount of years, and then they're launched and we want to try and do our best to have a positive relationship. You know, by the time they they leave the nest.

Nellie Harden: 00:05:35

Exactly. Yeah, I mean, here, the 6570. That's how many days are in 18 years. That's why we are intentional during all of that time. And it's our highest intensity, a time of influence. And that we can have not to say that we aren't later on, but there's a lot more influences that come in later on. They have the you know, adult tickets so to speak. Just because they have that doesn't mean that they're ready to be an adult. But this 6570 is definitely the time to pack in those relationships. And to really realize that you are not raising a mini me you are not raising a protege you are not raising what you think is the right, trophy. Yes, thank you, you are raising a person, a different person. And you know, that's why I call parents architects because we're building and designing the beginning of someone else's life. And and it really is such an important job. So I want to go back real quick, because I know the college scandals that happened in 2019. Were kind of a big launch point, just kind of a wake up call right for you and Jen and what this was, and I want to just step in, I mean, our listeners know me, I love to step into the psychology, I do psychology biology, I'm like, how does it work? And what does it do? Right? So the psychology back there? Why do you think parents and those parents in particular, but parents in general, because let's face it, parents that were watching that happening, were like, Oh, they got caught, that stinks for them. Or I can relate to what they were doing and why they were doing it. But you know, they went too far and all of these things, but still parents could relate to some threads that were happening, which is, you know, the people that you're talking to. So why do you think parents all of a sudden, not all of a sudden it was it was gradual over time, but why do you think it came to that? That fulcrum of I have to do this and and, you know, I have to do everything for them. I'm just going to let them sit back while I'm driving the bus. And then they're going to have all these accolades that I can go brag about. I mean, yeah, it's,

Cindy Muchnick: 00:07:41

it's pretty upsetting and kind of twisted. I mean, we Adyen and I kind of analogize it a bit to the OJ car chase, like, remember when that came on the news. And we were all sort of glued to the television like, this is insane what we're watching this, you know, this white car, just drive for hours and hours until it I guess runs out of gas. But this really was like a standoff and a punch to the gut, especially for professionals like me and Jen, who really cheerlead and advocate and support these kids during some pretty challenging times. And I think that, yes, it kind of probably reached this breaking point, it was obviously I hate to give more press two to the story, because I think it was, you know, it's still the final sentences are still being given out to these parents. I mean, these parents served real jail time, these were white collar crimes are being committed. They were, you know, faking test scores, faking transcripts, faking student resumes, you know, with with a mastermind involved in helping these families do it. But there was a lot of just bribery and scandal. And I think parents got to a point or this group of parents just got to a point for yes, there's this combination of cocktail party chatter, and real ego, where a parent just feels like my kid just is ill equipped to do this. And so I'm going to do this for them. And the message that's sent to all these kids, and I guess teenagers worldwide is that we don't feel there enough, right? You don't feel that who they are as who they are, the kind of student they are the kind of interest that they have, you know, their authentic selves, I guess to these parents, or parents who behave in this way, are telling their kids you know, we just don't think you're enough. You're not capable enough. We don't think your journey is important enough, and therefore, we're going to manipulate it, we're going to, you know, architected in a way that's really crossing a lot of bad lines. And so the key is to really all of it is yes, that kind of was the peak, although I would imagine, you know, people will argue that making donations to college campuses and legacy status and all these other things play into a much bigger broken system of the college admissions system. I mean, the reality on all of this is that we have over 4000 colleges in the United States. And parents typically parents tend to focus on like 100 of them as somehow being this magical list of schools. that will make you happy and successful in life. And that couldn't be farther from the truth. And these 100 or so, you know, are just scarce there have limited spots and applicants applying to, you know, 25 colleges, I mean, ridiculous amounts of applications. And just by the numbers themselves, they have to just shrink more and more. And COVID certainly added its own additional twist to making, you know, the college admission decision process and acceptance process, absolutely out of whack. And so if parents could open their mind to schools, beyond schools on a list that, you know, they think are more important than others, you know, many colleges, most colleges in the country have over a 60% acceptance rate. Let's just broaden the scope right there. First of all, and let's look at these kids who are working so hard, they already feel the pressure, they feel it from their classmates, they feel it within themselves, they see it on the news, you know, it's not there's already enough pressure and throw COVID in there, let's, you know, tell them how much we love them for who they are, and, and support what their interests are. And so the parent compass is really trying to teach us to appreciate the child we have in front of us. And to do some really deep self examination as parents of who we are, and what baggage we're bringing to the table. Before we can even parent these kids. Well, we've got to let go of a lot of our own biases, our own past our own journey, because Jen and I always say, you know, we had our turn. And now it's their turn. It's not our turn anymore. So

Nellie Harden: 00:11:31

okay, I have so much to unpack here. No, we're staying there. Okay. So I want to get back to the fact that they like you were saying they, they forged these documents, they forged all of this material. And it really was, yeah, we don't believe in you. So we're going to fake it. And we're going to fake it until you can make it but we're actually not going to pour what needs to right. If you keep faking it, they will never make it right. That's the that's the whole problem. They won't have those skill sets mindsets in order to you know, we You talk a lot about resilience in the book, right. And so they won't have that, because they're, I don't know, busy playing tennis or

Cindy Muchnick: 00:12:14

something. Yeah, this is the extreme, the extreme helicopter Tiger version of parenting that that we're talking about. But in the parent compass, we're also just talking to everyday normal parents saying, be careful, because the way you behave on the sidelines, the way you behave towards your kids, teachers, the way you behave in your home, the way you behave in the car ride, I mean, all those things, you know, our kids see it, our kids feel it, our kids model it. And so we have to kind of keep all this in perspective. And this wonderful psychologists that we interviewed with, um, Dr. Dan Peters, on the parent footprint, told us this quote that we use a lot now, which is the only thing you have, when your kids leave home, the only thing left remaining is your relationship. And so you have these 18 years, like your podcast is focusing on to build that relationship. And in that time, of course, we want our kids to learn resiliency, of course, we want them to learn self advocacy, of course, we want them to learn what excites them, and what really, you know, they struggle with to so that we can, yes, support them, but equip them really equip them, because they're saying that college students, they've said this for over a decade, they refer to them as tea cups, that they get to college so fragile and so shaky, that they're going to crack, like a little dainty tea cup, because parents are still, you know, calling them to be their alarm clocks in the morning. And, you know, and getting them laundry services to do their laundry and sending them you know, meals. And like I mean, it's just, you know, it has to stop, like the insanity part has to stop. And we do all know better. So the parent conference just keeps reminding you. So it's not an easy, it's an easy read in the sense that you can read it over a weekend, and you can apply many of the ideas instantly, it's never too late at whatever point you're at, if you're a sixth grade parent or even a senior in high school, there's still changes that can be made. But, but that being said, you know, the book is really meant to kind of be a guide to help you navigate.

Nellie Harden: 00:14:13

Yeah. Oh, so good. And okay, so, and we were talking a little bit about this beforehand. So you talk about in chapter three, praise the journey, not the destination. So what is that destination? You guys are talking about there that? We we don't want to focus necessarily on that. But let's focus on the way there.

Cindy Muchnick: 00:14:34

Right. So the journey, the journey part, obviously, I mean, I think we all know, the journey is is really all those snapshots and photographs we take along the way, right? It's all the things that are happening along the way and it's a little bit weird because saying it that way, obviously there is some destination and whatever that destination is, it's a destination, whether it's college or whether it's what we talked about in our final chapter, which are all these other alternate And of routes trade school, the military taking a gap year community college, you know, there it's not just college as kind of the destination, there are these other destinations and we don't even always know what is going to be the destination for our kids, right? Because not every one of them are ready to go to college are are gearing up in those four years to go to college. And so a we have to be more flexible. And I think that's one of the good byproducts of COVID is that nowadays when we say Oh, my kids taking a gap year are my kids gonna go? You know, do a project for a year, whatever. Most parents go, Oh, that's really cool, or what a great break for them as opposed to oh, like, are they not ready or what's wrong? You know, I mean, now it's really embraced, I think and much more accepted. But talking about praising the journey really means looking at your kids while they're going through just their day to day experiences. And, and not just scooping them up and fixing things, but really watching, observing and supporting, certainly letting them know that you're there to cheerlead, you're there to support. But also when they do have these setbacks, these failures, these bad grades, these bad social experiences with friends, or a bad conversation with a teacher, that you sit with them through that, and you let them feel it. And you don't just cover them and hugs and kisses and love and rainbows and try to fix it. You you listen a lot you learn you get better listening skills in the journey, you get better at question asking skills as parents in observing their journey. And then you are preparing them for whatever the destination might be, but you're not having a destination be this goal, then everything we're doing has to do with your grades and your test scores and getting to this prize at the end. Right? Because as we know, as parents, you have to take the long view and the long view isn't just the view to get to college, it's the view for life, right? You know, every you're a therapist as well. But I mean, every parent wonders like Oh, my God, what's my kid going to some Sunday, say on their chair, if they're not already seeing a therapist now and they see what later? You know, is it gonna have to do with me, and we don't want to be that parents. So, you know, we want to teach our kids to self advocate while we're appraising that journey. So that's those are important skills. We want to help them recover, learned how to recover from failure in you know, in that journey, and then we really want to do I don't know, you're probably familiar with Carol Dweck and the growth mindset. But you know, in summary, you know, if we focus on, you know, things that are just short term gains, we're not, you know, helping our kids with the much bigger picture. And I do recommend, you know, reading, reading and getting to know a little bit of Carol Dweck, we've summarized it shortly in the chapter. And that's one thing I think we did well, in the book, which was we went to a lot of data, a lot of experts, a lot of people outside of just our, our smaller world. And Jen and I, you know, share our parenting mistakes in the book, we share our, you know, college counseling sessions and case studies with lots of kids that we've worked with. But we also turn to these wonderful thought leaders like Carol Dweck, like Lisa demore, like Kelly Corrigan, you know, different different, you know, people that we interviewed along the way, we interviewed teachers, we interviewed heads of school, and, you know, administrators, we interviewed kids, like, we really tried to kind of give a more complete picture. And then we included the data to support that, but in a pretty user friendly way. So there's not a lot of charts and numbers, but there's definitely statistics that will that will, you know, sort of bolster and support what we're talking about? And I think, you know, for, for me,

Nellie Harden: 00:18:30

the scientists in me, I love that part of the book. So, yeah, going, going back to I want to say, you know, I love what you said, you know, we had our turnouts their turn, and but this parenthood childhood dynamic, right, it's growth for both. And so, all those things you were listing, right, you're becoming a better observer, you're becoming a better question asker, and all of those things as a parent, and I think one of the biggest and best things we can do as a parent is be vulnerable to that, right. So with my four daughters, there has been many, many times that I just look and I'm like, I, you know, this is a hard situation, I'm not sure exactly what to do here. So I'm gonna have to think on this for a while. And let's let's come back tomorrow, right? Instead of just like throwing out all of these consequences or what have you. But being able to look at them and say, this is hard, or being able to apologize, because you messed up, right? Those are some of those steps along the journey and helping them build that vulnerability and resilience so that they can get to their destination, because I think it's parents, I think, you know, when we have our little ones, they're so little and it's like, when you grow up, you're going to be so blah, blah, blah, right? And we like overshoot our influence window. And so we're talking about what they're going to do at 35. And instead of where We get to take them to because I, I think it's important as parents, you know, we do everything for them during the first half of parenthood. And during the second half of parenthood, we come alongside them and do things with them because we're transitioning and helping. And then later on, we just become the lighthouse, you know, for them. But we overshoot we're really like, we're talking about the lighthouse period. And we're like, oh, wait, what can I do during this time during this very intentional time we have there. And I think it's really important. One of the other chapters you guys have is about how school is a job. And this is something that I have talked about before, we mentioned that I just stopped homeschooling after seven years loved it. Who knows, we might go back at some point, but right now we're not but all of the conferences that we've been to as a family, that was something that was kind of encouraged as well, like, this is your job right now, this is your focus. This is, you know, what you can work hard to succeed at, it's not just some state mandated thing you got to go and be present for. Right, right. And so I want you to tell the listeners a little bit more about that, from you your perspective, school is a job and to teach that to them.

Cindy Muchnick: 00:21:19

So it's really funny I, I have written previous books on study skills, and college essay writing, and time management and helping books to kind of help teens be students. And this idea of school being your job is something I presented at lots and lots of schools. In fact, my own kids kind of laugh because they sort of have the mantra now that you know, yeah, school is our job, and you have your job, we get it the whole thing, but it's not meant to be I mean, when I talk about it as a job, I talk about school being a job because it's so essential to gain not just these life skills, in you know, in the school setting, but these skills that you're going to have when you when you leave school, and what I mean by it is, in school, you have you know, four or five or six, seven different bosses, you have these teachers who are basically your bosses, or these coaches, who are the kind of your leaders that you have to report to right. And your job as a student is to really figure out what they want, you can go against them, you know, you can debate you don't have to agree with everything they say. But you do have to figure out what each of them wants. And so my oldest son, who is now a school teacher, professionally, has said to me, I remember you always saying mom, figure out what they want, how they want the way they want it, and give it back to them that way. And it sounded a little bit robotic when you sort of say it that way. But the reality is that you need to learn what your bosses want you to do in your work. And so some teachers want you to memorize a lot. Some teachers want you to participate a lot in class, others want you to come in outside of class, others want to just lecture and have you regurgitate I mean, they have all these different styles. And in outside of school, you're going to have all these different people you co work with, or that you answer to or maybe you're going to be your own boss. But the point is that in that process of school, waking up and getting up and doing your job of being a student all day, you're going to figure out, you know what things check for you. So your kids are going to come home telling you, you know, this is the class I really loved, or this is the teacher I really loved or this is the topic I really didn't love. And sometimes a great teacher can can make a subject that a kid didn't really wasn't very inspired by be really inspiring. And sometimes a not so great teacher can ruin a topic that kids usually, you know, really like but just circle back on on why it's a job is that I think our kids need to see that we get up and do something every day, whether it's managing our home, or whether it's you know, running our own business, or going out to the workplace or our workplaces, at home wherever it might be. And so their job is to kind of get up and be a student. And obviously, everything they learn isn't going to apply to everything in their life. But the skills they get the life skills they get from the mistakes they make, or from the test taking or from the communicating with their teachers or getting along with your peers are going to carry through for the rest of their lives. And so I just think it's a good analogy for kids to feel like why am I doing this? And this is so boring, you're doing it because this is your job for right now. And you don't have to do it for forever. I mean, I think my kids sometimes look at me and think, Gosh, you don't have any homework. You don't have any, you know, and I think yes, you know, we all put in our time kind of doing that. But sometimes I miss those days, like I want to go sit in the back of a classroom and take notes and just listen and enjoy it and appreciate, you know, the learning and not every kid or adult, you know, thinks that's fun or wants to do that. But that's really where the Think of school like your job kind of came from.

Nellie Harden: 00:24:39

I'm that I'm that way too. I mean, I am a committed lifelong learner. I mean, I thought about I was like maybe when I'm like, I don't know, old 70s 80s I'll just like sneak into college lectures.

Cindy Muchnick: 00:24:51

Yeah, well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you a story. So I raised my kids in Southern California for I don't think I've ever told this story on a podcast but I raised my kids for you know Many years in Southern California, and we lived near a camp, a UC campus, and I got the course catalog. And I was really inspired to sit in the back of an art history class with, like, 300 students because I studied art history. And I'm like, I just want to go and be in a dark room and have someone teach me teach me about art. And so I found this, this class, and I just wandered into the back, and I brought a notebook and a pen. And my kids came home that night, they're like, What did you do today? Mom, you know, we're having our download. And I said, Oh, I went to school today. And they said, What are you talking about? I said, Well, I'm auditing a class. And they said, well, like we and they looked at me, they said, Were you dressed like that? I think I was in like, a dress with my purse or whatever. And they said, they said, No, Mom, you're not blending in, you have to blend in. And so they for that, like, I just did it for a couple months. And they ended up buying me a school sweatshirt from the school. And they told me that's what I need to wear to school and that I need to carry a backpack even though I'm, I need to I need to blend in a little more. And I have to say that like three to six month period where I took two different courses, I audited them I ultimately like introduced myself to the teacher and asked Is it okay for me to sit in the back, I didn't want to just take advantage of you know, of school tuition and funding. And I have to say they were the greatest greatest six months. I mean, I had full notebooks, my brain was free. I wasn't being tested on any. But it was just so interesting to learn for learning sake. And I think my kids kind of got a kick out of it. i That wasn't the goal. It was purely selfish for me. But it was like I needed that. And I'm ready to go do it. Again, we've moved, and we moved here at a different college campus. And so if you see me wandering around a college campus, I really could be a secret student. And I'm not saying you know, everyone should just go break in and do that locally. But you know, go enrich yourself as adults, we should allow ourselves that gift. If that excites us. So funny, my

Nellie Harden: 00:26:51

kids laugh at me all the time, because especially being their teacher for the last seven years, I get really jazzed about science. And so in this past year, I was able to teach on the history of science for history. And we were teaching, you know, science that I was teaching science the whole year. And, you know, homeschooling comes in a million different flavors. But my flight for was up at the board. This is me taking notes, and you're taking notes behind me. And so it was like a more traditional, I guess. But anyway, I one of my side hobbies is studying particle physics. I love it. And so my kids, I like I come downstairs and I'm talking about, you know, black holes, and I'm talking about, you know, universe theories and all of this. And they're like, mom, like, are we making dinner?

Cindy Muchnick: 00:27:42

But I think you're a big nerd. That's yeah, and

Nellie Harden: 00:27:44

I'm totally fine with that. I all, you know, tattooed on my forehead, that's fine. I just, I think science is so fascinating. But my point is, I think it's good for them to see how excited I am to learn.

Cindy Muchnick: 00:27:58

That can never hurt. And I'll just want to flip that for one second, Nelly. Because in the book we really do talk about, about finding really understanding for your kids what it is that excites that. And it could be very different from what excites us, oftentimes it is. So it's not going to necessarily be particle physics for all four of your kids, maybe one of them. I don't think any of them. Maybe none of them. But but as a parent, if we can make part of our goal to, to hook in to what excites our kid and let them teach us. So I've had parents tell me, you know, I've learned so much about the stock market from my kid, or I've learned so much about professional basketball for my kid, or I've learned so much about, you know, you know, whatever current events, because that's my kid's thing and finding out what are the things that excite your kid, whether it's a hobby or whether it's an academic interest, and let them guide you let them share your enthusiasm and be willing to learn from them. Because that Bond's you in this really special way. Of course, it's wonderful when they share your interest because then you have that commonality. And you sort of do feel this, like pride and excitement that oh, we share this special love, like I'm a little bit of a Broadway show junkie and two of my kids, they will go to any musical at any hour of any day Professional Children's performances, it doesn't matter. Like I am always listening to like the XM Broadway station in the car. And they will, you know, two of them will accompany me to anything like I know if I get two tickets, I'll find someone to come. My other two kids are like now that is just not you know, that's not my thing. So I love that we share that but then I also share with a different kid, you know, whatever each of their interests are so while it doesn't always excite me, I think that's has to be one of our goals. It's

Nellie Harden: 00:29:42

only fair right? 100% turn. Yes, yes. 100% I just because this was a thought that crossed my head and it might have been one of our listeners too. When we were talking about how school is job. I just want to go back there for a second because I've had some of my Clients, students go out clients kids say this to them is, well, I'm going to be my own, or I'm going to be my own boss, or I don't want a boss because they want to own their own company, which I think is great. I've, you know, I've been an employee, I've been an owner of my own company. And I think it's important then that those kids especially that want to, I don't want a boss, right, I want to own my own company, well, then you have to learn how to be a leader and a follower of yourself, right. And so that's even more so and so parents, instead of being shut down by that, if your kid says that in, like, go harder, and push and explore and have greater conversations with them even more, because they're gonna have to be a leader and a follower. Yeah.

Cindy Muchnick: 00:30:47

And have to know how to get along with people, yes, manage them, but get along well, especially if you're going to be that leader, and you want people to, you know, support the work that you're doing, or support the vision that you're trying to execute. So yeah, that does make sense. It's a very pivotal time, Nellie, obviously in the world of like careers, and it's hard to have the crystal ball of knowing how it's gonna affect our kids with, you know, traditional offices really shifting. You know, I know a lot of kids just out of college now that, you know, still barely go into an office and that it's sad, because they're, they're behind screens doing their first jobs, as opposed to being in an environment around other people to learn from, you know, in real life. And so it'll just be interesting to see how it unfolds. And I think as parents, we have to be extra kind of sensitive to that, you know, it's just our world is flipped in in a lot of new ways. And they're saying that, you know, fewer and fewer, you know, businesses are going to go back now that we've seen how virtual works. And so I just hope for our kids sakes, I worry because I know that that socialization is so important. And I know the mentorship and it's not that you can't get it through a computer screen. But as we all know, being you know, next to each other in a room, sharing, sharing the same oxygen, hopefully, in a healthy way, you know, is so important for everyone's growth, and just for humanity to be less, you know, less virtual and less tech, robotic, you know, what having the screen has been a blessing, but I don't want it to just to also be just a curse for these kids that are that are getting out there. You know, because they do need a place, I think to go and congregate and be around other people their age and other adults that can mentor them and that they can learn from. So I'm a little worried about losing the watercooler completely.

Nellie Harden: 00:32:33

I can understand that. Okay, so to kind of close up our last thing I want to go. So I have a 17 year old that's going into his senior year. So I'm going to like if I could come and just like be a fly on your wall. During this next year of my life. I will and there's a lot of transitions that are coming up, and we're 100% Focus. What do you want? What do you you know, she wants to be a therapist. So, you know, we're trying to find different psychology schools and where we could do that. And she's in dual enrollment. And so we have that, you know, to play a part in all of these things. And there's just so much to figure out as a parent, so much to figure out as a kid, and then they're going into this transition. What I want to ask you is because of I mean, we've brought up the pandemic a few times because it is our world, you know, now and I agree that it's flipped us. Is there anything different now or anything more parents can focus on now? Or help their kid with since they're going from this? And still in COVID? World? Right, right. But also now adding this traditional transition that's been going on when your kid turns around 18 ish, right? And they're heading to whatever they're doing, whether that's college or all those other options that you were talking about, but in that with the pandemic in mind, what are just a couple of key things parents can do in this senior year.

Cindy Muchnick: 00:34:03

Yeah. So first of all, I think the biggest word relating to this right now, maybe two words I would throw out would be empathy, and flexibility. The Empathy piece really comes from the sense that you know, we are not in their shoes right now, experiencing these last few years of what education has felt like in schools and behind screens. And and for young people. I mean, if you want to talk about resilience, I mean, sometimes the word resilience bothers me because I feel like it's what all it's kind of become the buzzword like, Oh, you're also resilient, you're learning resilience, you know, this and that. None of them were asking for that. None of us were asking for this. But I think in this, this adolescent journey, I remember when the pandemic began thinking like who's going to suffer the most, like the senior citizens are going to suffer because they're, you know, old, older and you know, might be more frail and susceptible to this disease that could take their lives. So that's scary. These parents with these Tiny toddlers at home that are never going to remember the pandemic and the way that they experienced it. But these parents have to kind of protect them and, and keep them at home longer. homeschooling parents are feeling whatever but I have to say, and maybe it's because I've worked with teens for 25 years, I honestly felt the worst for like the teens, tweens and early college years, I just felt like what is going to happen to these kids with this totally agree this shift. It's seismic, it's we don't even know, you know, we're going to look back on this in 1020 30 years with all this data of sort of what what happened to all these kids, and how did this really impact and affect them right now we're so we're still in it towards the end and, and short term, you know, looking at how they're feeling. And so I guess the biggest piece, I would say, is first empathy, which would be to just know that what we've been through is one thing, but what our kids have been through, I think, is really expanded way and is much more significant than what we've gone through. Because going back to the quote, you know, we had our turn, you know, these years are so crucial in their development, and they are becoming adults and, and they are gaining that independence. And they want to be their own bosses, not just not just in the real world, but they want to be their own bosses. Now, you know, they don't want us you know, being in charge, they want to be in charge. And it's been so uncertain that it's hard to get so you know, sure footing in this stage. So to be there kind of as the support as the empathy and to give them more time and show them that grace and patience, that might be hard, because we want to say Come on, you know, college or whatever, post high school around the corner, like let's get set up, they just may not be there yet, and may need more time. And then that brings me the second word, which I think the flexibility and you know, I hate to use just sort of throwing these big words out without the, you know, support under them. But the point would be that I just think the rules have completely flipped and changed. And so we just have to be way more flexible to kids choosing alternative routes, kids telling us, they're not quite ready. You know, I have two of my kids who said they feel like they have such holes in their math and in, in certain subjects that weren't able to be taught like face to face. And they feel like you know, some of them are working now in these, you know, flipped classrooms or these environments that are exploratory learning where the kids work together, and the teachers kind of sit there and only facilitate as opposed to your traditional method of being at the board and, and teaching. And so I think kids have just lost a lot, and they've lost a lot of competence along the way. So if we can be flexible and expressed to them, like, listen, we're here, if we're exploring and your daughter's case, these different schools for to get into therapy and to get into psychology, you know, there's going to be such a broad range, and we may stay close and local, maybe I'll take some extra community college classes to be sure this is what you want. Maybe you don't need to specialize. So soon, let's be open to other subjects what you know, do you want a huge college or a small college are still going to ask those same questions. And I don't think that either us or our kids really know the answers. I mean, I just was so thrilled that they went back in person, right when my kids finally got a chance to go back. So I think those are kind of the two common themes, I'd say for you with a daughter, that's an entering senior, my biggest piece of advice would be get the writing done over the summer, get as much application writing done, which means you know, pull up the questions from the Common Application and pull up the question from, you know, your, your, your local, like, in California, we have the UCs. So they have their own questions, University of California colleges, whatever essays can be written over the summer, get them done, because the school year is going to start and they don't want to be working over Thanksgiving and winter break on figuring out you know, their personal statement, there just is a good amount of writing. Unless you're maybe at a state school that's that's kind of focused just on the grades and test scores and not the writing, get get a lot of those essays done. And it's hard for these kids to write a personal narrative. They've never been asked to self reflect necessarily, they've learned their five paragraph essay, they've learned their argumentative essay, but to actually do it first person, you know, 650 words, that gives a glimpse of who you are. It's not your life story,

Cindy Muchnick: 00:39:08

it's pretty hard to do. It's a pretty challenging skill set. So I would say that would be just kind of another helpful thing to try to just get a little bit of a jumpstart. And then obviously, as for parents, to try to spend that senior you're getting a few life skills in there like the laundry if you haven't hit that yet, looking some basic things. Katherine Newman, a fellow author wrote a great book called How to Be a person. And it's really written for middle schoolers, but I think it'd be great for high schoolers and those going off to college to kind of teach you the basics of how to cook a chicken and how to, you know, write a thank you note, if you haven't learned how to do that. And you know how to self advocate and how to clean a toilet. So you know, those are important skills that we can help teach our kids before they go, I still get calls. In fact, yesterday, my son moved into his first apartment and he said, Where do I put the dishwashing detergent and I got a photo of these different pockets in the door of a dishwasher and I loved getting the call I'm like, Oh, I think it's the square one with the cap that pops open. Try putting it in there. It's like, Well, there's two sides. Which side does it go it? You know, I mean, so and that's great. You know, I'm glad he's asking. I'm glad I can teach from a distance. But we can teach some of that stuff at home to save ourselves. Save them a little bit of a phone call and the embarrassment. But I'm glad you asked that throwing him under the

Nellie Harden: 00:40:20

bus vote so funny. Anyway, oh, my goodness. Well, thank you so much. That is a wonderful advice, by the way, and we will, we will definitely take advantage of that. But thank you so much for being here. You guys. If you have not read the parent compass yet, go get it. It is such a good book. And you I promise, we'll find nuggets of wisdom in each and every chapter that you can apply. And you can start using and even more, even more, you can help a friend with right and help your sister or your brother out with with their kids to write. And so if we can start being more of grassroots parents helping parents world, it's going to be a lot better for ourselves and for our kids. So thank you so much for being on

Cindy Muchnick: 00:41:07

here so much, Nelly and what you said about grassroots, this is a movement, the parent compasses a movement, and we're trying to spread it like wildfire. And these wonderful book clubs have been springing up where parents are helping parents saying, let's talk about this, let's talk about how hard this is. Let's be you know, on the park bench together, and let's you know, help our kids and help ourselves, you know, along this journey in the appropriate ways without crossing those lines that you know, and, and every day we make mistakes, like I just I'm not perfect. Jen's not perfect. We all know this is this is, you know, a trial and error in some ways. But hopefully the parent compass can be, you know, a good guide book to kind of keep us on the course.